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I'm Sorry

By Jim Pate

October 8, 2018

 

I'm sorry

I'm sorry

 

Two words so easily spoken

Two hearts so sadly broken

A family torn apart

 

Perhaps we were too young to know

Just what a lifetime really meant

Some man said we were now wed

And out into the world we went.

 

I'm sorry

I'm sorry

 

Two words so easily spoken

Two hearts so sadly broken

A family torn apart

 

I didn't know all that you needed

My own needs just superceded

Selfish thoughts were all I knew

I was one but we were two

 

I'm sorry

I'm sorry

 

Two words so easily spoken

Two hearts so sadly broken

A family torn apart

 

Before we had time to adjust

Our first born son to us was sent

Then as your Mother duties started

I somehow just felt deserted

 

I'm sorry

I'm sorry

 

Two words so easily spoken

Two hearts so sadly broken

A family torn apart

 

We moved away to another town

Our love we hoped could there be found

But it wasn't where we called our home

That caused the fights when we were alone

 

I'm sorry

I'm sorry

 

Two words so easily spoken

Two hearts so sadly broken

A family torn apart

 

My work succeeded for a while

I thought that I had caused your smile

Misunderstandings not so smart

The fights grew worse, two broken hearts

 

I'm sorry

I'm sorry

 

Two words so easily spoken

Two hearts so sadly broken

A family torn apart

 

We separated, you stayed home

At nights I felt so all alone

Again those selfish thoughts I had

Decisions made in haste we're bad

 

I'm sorry

I'm sorry

 

Two words so easily spoken

Two hearts so sadly broken

A family torn apart

 

It's taken me so many years

To face the truth, with many tears

It was I who left you both alone

I know now that I was so wrong

 

I'm sorry

I'm sorry

 

Two words so easily spoken

Two hearts so sadly broken

A family torn apart



 

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HI Jim

 

This shows quite a lot of subtle aspects of relationship breakdown. So I think story wise it's very good.

 

The rhyme scheme has consistency issues which I don't care about all that much, it's not the be all and end all.

 

What concerns me is a couple of instances poet speak/ten dollar words/rhyme forcing.

These:

"My own needs just superceded"

"Our love we hoped could there be found"

As the rhyme scheme is not consistent I wonder at the need to use this non conversational English.

 

The structure of the song seems to me just right. You have an unstable chorus and a stable verse.

Because the instability factor in the chorus is caused by only one line, it is not super unstable but probably enough.

I do like the way that line lets out there at the end rhyming with nothing. 

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

 

 

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Hi Jim,


To me, the chorus (incl. the "I'm sorry") is very touching. In all its shortness and simplicity. I like it a lot.

As I consider myself more a singer than a songwriter (and also because I'm no English native speaker), my feedback to your song is more related to rhyme and rhythm (when imagining how to sing it). So please apologize any "weirdnesses" in my language! 🙂


I think the first two verses are very singable, but I have some diffficulties with the third one:

 

Before we had time to adjust

Our first born son to us was sent

Then as your Mother duties started

I somehow just felt deserted

 

... I'm afraid I'm not really able to come up with an ideal solution, but maybe it would help to change the second line into
"Our first born son was sent to us" (to rhyme better with "adjust") ?


And maybe, for the last two lines, something like:

"Now more a mother than a wife 
Your duties also changed my life"


But I don't know if this sounds too simple (or otherwise weird :) ) ... just a rough idea for a more consistent rhyme scheme and rhythm.

Also in verse 4, I'm struggling a bit in finding the rhythm:

 

We moved away to another town

Our love we hoped could there be found

But it wasn't where we called our home

That caused the fights when we were alone

 

I just had the idea of:

 

We moved into another town
And hoped our love could there be found
But still we didn't find our home
Our fights got worse - we felt alone.

Well... this changes the meaning quite a bit and I'm not entirely happy with it.

Still - I'd like to share this with you to show you what I mean, but you might better keep your first version of verse 4.

 

The last two verses are again very singable, and I really like the climax / "solution" / insight that you express in the last one.

 

And just a minor question (last line, verse 6) Did you mean "decisions were bad" or "we're bad" ?

Altogether, I like this song very much, it draws a very clear picture and consistent story to me.

Cheers,
Christiane



 

 

 

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I agree with Christiane.  FWIW, I'll also add an observation.  Given the theme, I would expect this would have a fairly slow-to-moderate tempo as a song, and this seems like a really long lyric, and would result in a song that, at least given the repeated structure of the lyric sections,  would go on and on and on monotonously repeating the same corresponding musical sections too.  But, of course, a monotony issue will depend on the overall musical arrangement.

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Hi Jim, 

          And to think a lot of these lyricists and songwriters are all dried up by the time they hit fifty!  You're just getting in your stride. Christiane had some nice suggestions.  Her instincts seem pretty good.  And I agree with Hobo about length and monotony. I think I counted 7 choruses. Maybe if you only do a chorus after every two verses that would take care of that?  Justin Bieber just had a hit with a song called Sorry but I don't see much overlap so I think you're fine. Hehehe.   I like it! 

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Thanks.  You found the spots i was struggling with.  Especially Christine whose suggestions and critique helps immensely.  

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First off....I'm going to say "Good story!"  I'm going to agree with David with the length....unless you pull the tempo up in the arrangement or do some editing, this will go on for a lonnnng time.  there are a couple instances of "yoda-speak"  such as: 

 

Before we had time to adjust

Our first born son to us was sent - great for a poem...not so much for a song

Then as your Mother duties started

I somehow just felt deserted

 

Maybe rephrase it like:

 

We didn't have time to adjust

before our first born

Your mother's duties started

I just felt ignored

 

It's not a perfect rhyme and doesn't follow your rhyme scheme, but the picture is more dynamic and flows more naturally......obviously it's up to you to decide what you think is best for you.  Just a free observation......worth what you paid for it.

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I agree regarding the overall length of this - a chorus after every 2 verses would be better - and skip the initial one, too.  Musically, doing the song this way might then need a bridge or instrumental to break up the pattern and 'spark the ears'.

 

BTW, John Denver had a song titled 'I'm Sorry', too.

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22 hours ago, Snabbu said:

The rhyme scheme has consistency issues which I don't care about all that much, it's not the be all and end all.

I disagree with Gary.

Pattern-recognition and pattern-repetition may not quite be Macbeth's "be-all and end-all" for song - but they sure don't deserve dismissal without more consideration and attention.

 

Thing is, once you have established the pattern, repetition of it goes by with being consciously registered.

It's the careless deviations of pattern from expectations which become more consciously noticeable to a listener.

It becomes an annoyance under the skin - we know something ain't right.

 

The lack of consistency is a very very noticeable - yet very easily fixed, also - which makes it frustrating.

For a writer not to notice this stuff before punting their work out there seems odd to me.

Not to be self-critical enough to notice these basics also seems pretty shocking or, at least, very surprising.

 

You have to care about these big little things, Jim - they are important.

It's not something you should rightly be expecting others to do when it's your job.

The refreshingly potent visions and themes you introduce have certainly earned that level of attention from you.

 

For concerns about length; I clocked the verbals at 60 bpm and it came in at just over 5 minutes.

 

Something so long, so dolorous, so heavy, in my experience, can become more palatable and comfortable by modulating each chorus.

 

"Chorus" - in a structure like this - is a name functionally applied to the entire structural shape which gets repeated.

I'm sorry

I'm sorry

Two words so easily spoken

Two hearts so sadly broken

A family torn apart

Perhaps we were too young to know

Just what a lifetime really meant

Some man said we were now wed

And out into the world we went.

That's the chorus

 

Next chorus - new key - up a fourth is comfy.

And a new key for each subsequent chorus.

That's modulation.

 

That can help maintain interest and also might obviate the need to worry about need for instrumental bits.

 

Editing - ripping stuff out and throwing it away - is always beneficial.

Charlie Dickens said if you write something that pleases you - rip it up and start again.

(Not quite in those actual words - but that's the gist.)

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59 minutes ago, Lazz said:

You have to care about these big little things, Jim - they are important.

It's not something you should rightly be expecting others to do when it's your job.

 

The refreshingly potent visions and themes you introduce have certainly earned that level of attention from you.

 

Thanks for your comments.  The quoted piece of your post did disturb me.  I'm sure you know that I have a story to tell first and foremost.  This was no exception.  There were a few spots that has posed a difficulty in the overall telling of the story.  I am definitely too close to see the solutions clearly.  That is the only reason I put the poem out before I composed the final lyrics and accompaniment.

 

I do like your suggestions about the melodies. 

 

I've been successfully writing music for over 65 years so I do feel somewhat qualified to ask you to be less somewhat pompous in your critiques. It could be the comment that causes some new songwriter to abandon his or her dream

 

 

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Hi Jim

To Clarify my rhymes inconsistency statement, it happens once in the song in verse one, every other verse is basically rhyming couplets. Yes some of the rhymes are very tenuous, one or two of them being a consonant only rhymes, which is more of a sonic connection, but they are there and will sound fine sung. Yes it's loose but in my experience it's tight enough I remain un-fussed. The fact that the major discrepancy is in verse one means that no pattern has been set and broken, no expectations have been built and dashed. It is perfectly acceptable to use adjust/sent as a consonant only rhyme in an unstable song. Even though technically it is not a rhyme. 

It will work. 

 

I am not seeing this as a lack of care or attention to the work I am seeing it as, I have this to say, and I'm saying it and I'm not dumbing down the rhymes for preschooler mentality. 

I am writing an unstable song using the most stable rhyme scheme rhyming couplets, therefore the rhymes should not be perfect except where they can not be avoided.

So I don't know what job it is you didn't do in regard to rhyming but I suspect that it's to "fat cat sat on the mat" it which will stuff the song completely.

 

I saw that Christiane pointed out some rhythm issues she felt were there, I didn't look at the rhythm, that of course needs dealing with.

I saw that one of her solutions was to change this line "I somehow just felt deserted" . I don't think that line can be changed it's the strongest image in the song, an image yes that only a man gets, having experienced going from a rooster to a feather duster once the child arrives. For me it was very important to the song. So if there are rhythmic issues the rest of the song will need to be rejigged to fit with that.

 

Then as your Mother duties started (3)

I somehow just felt deserted (3)

 

They seem to be line length three and are in fairly similar positions. So if there is an issue every other verse has to be made to fit that pattern I feel.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jimpate said:

I've been successfully writing music for over 65 years so I do feel somewhat qualified to ask you to be less somewhat pompous in your critiques. It could be the comment that causes some new songwriter to abandon his or her dream

Sorry Jim - didn't know you were quite so thin-skinned and keen to misinterpret encouragement and appreciation, and the genuine wish to be helpful if I am able.  Never dreamed for a second that all you wanted was a "well done" or a "good job".

I had mistakenly thought you posted for critique.

 

Neither did I know of your successful longevity as a writer of music.  My impression I picked up was that you you were a man of mature years and perspectives only quite recently embarked on the journey of writing song-lyrics and able to generate stuff that I have read as unique and individual..

 

The 65 year thing amazes me - I have no idea what to make of it - is it important?

 

If you wish to help me, please show me your reasons for this "pompous" accusation 
 

2 hours ago, Jimpate said:

I'm sure you know that I have a story to tell first and foremost. 

No - I have no idea whatsoever - no idea of your practices or methods - how and why would I?

Why does the fact that you are telling a story somehow remove responsibilities for considerations of craft?

I don't get that.  How does that happen?  Are you able to explain?

 

 

 

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Hey Jim

Is the genre country?

Because if it is the variations to rhyme scheme in the set up are standard practice.

I have also seen them do either a truncated, or extended verse form as well in the set up. 

"I love her first" for example is extended. I think that adds interest. Melodically because it forces a unique one off variation which modifies the generic nature of some country music.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

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3 hours ago, Lazz said:

I disagree with Gary.

... but I am very intrigued by his concept of stability-instability in lyrics.

 

Maybe you could enlarge on it for me, G.

Perhaps best done in the "Songwriting Discussion" ghetto if you have time for it.

 

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Reading that a child "was sent" to a couple makes think of delivery-by-stork.

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Get with it David.....It's by an Amazon drone these days.....

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14 minutes ago, HoboSage said:

Reading that a child "was sent" to a couple makes think of delivery-by-stork.

Interesting.

 

It made me think of a heavenly intercession.

I thought that was its intention.

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1 hour ago, Lazz said:

iAre you able to explain?

 

 

 

Thanks for your critique.  I'll take up the rest via PM

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Very touching and from the heart (as all your work is) which is important to me- I don't like manufactured, over edited, insincere lyrics. I usually avoid the lyric critique section of this website as I find it incredibly difficult to get a full picture without the music. When I write, music and lyrics tend to come together so it's hard for me to separate the two. 

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Thanks all for your comments.  Over my life I've been rejected more times than not so I'm accustomed to hard critique.  I share for critique to inspire young people to tell their stories through any art form they can.  'nuff said?

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Thanks everyone for your help and support as well as for putting up with an ornery old man.

 

Here is my final edit on the lyrics to condense it into a song.  I'm working on the melodies as I speak.

 

Feel free to critique.  It's what improves our art form.

 

Parenthetical phrasing to be spoken

 

I'm So Sorry

By Jim Pate (October,10, 2018)

 

Chorus1

I'm so sorry

I'm so sorry

Three words so quickly spoken

Two hearts remain unbroken

That's how my story starts

 

V1

Perhaps we didn’t understand

Just what forever means

The preacher said I now thee wed

We left to start our dreams.

 

I guess I was too young to know

That you had needs as well

All those holes left unfilled

Made your nights a living hell.

 

(And so I said)

 

Chorus2

I'm so sorry

I'm so sorry

Three words so easily spoken

Two hearts so sadly broken

A marriage torn apart

 

V2

As time passed by I saw love die

From angry words and fights

Then in my final selfish way

I left our house that night

 

You took our kids and moved away

Now I was all alone

I begged you please come back to me

But you were finally gone

 

(And so tonight I say this last time)

 

Chorus3

I'm so sorry

I'm so sorry

Three words so easily spoken

Two hearts so sadly broken

A family torn apart


 

 

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21 hours ago, Lazz said:

... but I am very intrigued by his concept of stability-instability in lyrics.

 

Maybe you could enlarge on it for me, G.

Perhaps best done in the "Songwriting Discussion" ghetto if you have time for it.

 

Hi Lazz

 

That would be song crafting Discussions , rather than do all that again there is an article here and a discussion that deals with this.

https://forums.songstuff.com/member/articles/song-writing_38/lyrics-writing_42/song-structure-r18/?tab=comments#comment-3

 

Cheers

 

Gary

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1 hour ago, Jimpate said:

Thanks everyone for your help and support as well as for putting up with an ornery old man.

 

Here is my final edit on the lyrics to condense it into a song.  I'm working on the melodies as I speak.

 

Feel free to critique.  It's what improves our art form.

 

Parenthetical phrasing to be spoken

 

I'm So Sorry

By Jim Pate (October,10, 2018)

 

Chorus1

I'm so sorry "I'm sorry" sounds better singing wise.

I'm so sorry

Three words so quickly spoken

Two hearts remain unbroken  You meant "broken" right?

That's how my story starts I dont have a problem with folks starting off with a chorus, but in this case it seems like a traditional set up verse would have lent to a better out come and less confusion.

 

V1

Perhaps we didn’t understand

Just what forever means

The preacher said I now thee wed This may have been a great opening line for your set up verse.

We left to start our dreams.

 

I guess I was too young to know

That you had needs as well what needs?

All those holes left unfilled What holes?

Made your nights a living hell. I dont have a problem with an unconventional length of a verse as long as it's saying something. It seems to be filled with too many generalities. So far it's too generic.

 

(And so I said)

 

Chorus2

I'm so sorry

I'm so sorry

Three words so easily spoken

Two hearts so sadly broken

A marriage torn apart

 

V2

As time passed by I saw love die How did it die?

From angry words and fights About what?

Then in my final selfish way How was it selfish?

I left our house that night

 

You took our kids and moved away

Now I was all alone

I begged you please come back to me In what way and how would things be different?

But you were finally gone Again, the verse subject wise seems to have a plot line, but the reason why the marriage fell apart lacks density.

 

(And so tonight I say this last time)

 

Chorus3

I'm so sorry

I'm so sorry

Three words so easily spoken

Two hearts so sadly broken

A family torn apart


 

 

Hi J

 

   I think over all you did a better job condensing this and for the most part it has a viable plot. But it just seemed too generic in delivery.

 

just my two cents worth

R-N-R Jim

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21 hours ago, Lazz said:

... but I am very intrigued by his concept of stability-instability in lyrics.

 

Maybe you could enlarge on it for me, G.

Perhaps best done in the "Songwriting Discussion" ghetto if you have time for it.

 

Pat Pattison talks about melody and lyrics:

https://www.coursera.org/lecture/songwriting-lyrics/stable-and-unstable-tones-part-1-UU8YP

 

=Bob=

 

 

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16 minutes ago, R-N-R Jim said:

Hi J

 

   I think over all you did a better job condensing this and for the most part it has a viable plot. But it just seemed too generic in delivery.

 

just my two cents worth

R-N-R Jim

Thanks for your comments.  I opened with the unstable chorus because that seemed appropriate for the instability of the relationship.  Just my thoughts.

 

No, I intended the opening chorus to relate the acceptance of "I'm so sorry" before marriage as how the "story starts".

 

But, I've seemed to come up with a melody that fits the prosady.  

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Hi, Jim! 

I really liked this lyric (both variants), and for me some shortages are not so significant, the whole idea is much more valuable. 

I think it is very sincere and personal and sometimes it's hard when part of your personal life is widely discussed.

I think it's a great example of song that describes the real experience in relationships, life, worldly wisdom. 
I like this type of songs, they are rare and valuable. 

Thank you for sharing! 
 

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I guess I was too young to know

That you had needs as well

All those holes left unfilled

Made your nights a living hell.

 

The last line above has extra syllables that may make the prosody as it's sung a bit rushed compared to the consistent and easy flow everywhere else in this stanza, as well as everywhere else in the rest of the song.  But, my main nit with this line is that I think it is way over the top with melodrama.  If the husband was beating his wife or something, that would be "a living hell."  Here, he's just not meeting her needs - not good for a marriage, but, in my opinion, not "a living hell." I think that's too strong.

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😂 I've been told many times words are as bad as hitting.

 

But you found the verse I've rewritten multiple times.  Trying to show how insensitive a person can be to another's needs (from sexual to companionship) particularly a male inexperienced in close relationships like marriage is challenging.

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11 hours ago, Jimpate said:

😂 I've been told many times words are as bad as hitting.

 

But you found the verse I've rewritten multiple times.  Trying to show how insensitive a person can be to another's needs (from sexual to companionship) particularly a male inexperienced in close relationships like marriage is challenging.

What hurtful words?  As the lyric itself makes clear later in the second verse, "angry words and fights" did not come until later in the marriage "as time passed by."  This asserted "living hell" for her comes in the second half of the first verse nearer the start of the marriage, and the only thing the lyric offers as supporting such a dramatic assertion at that point in the story is that he was too naive to know she had needs too, and that he now realizes he wasn't meeting her needs back then.  That's why the assertion that every night was a living hell for her at that point in the story jumped out at me as too melodramatic.  Moreover, if every night was a living hell for her from the start, before the arguments began and before they maybe even had kids, my respect for her, if not my sympathy, is greatly diminished given she that stuck around as long as she did despite the constant living hell.  You're telling the story, not me.  But, FWIW, because of that over-the-top unsupported assertion of a living hell in the first verse, at that point the story lost credibility for me.  A tweak indicating that the dysfunctional marriage would continue to evolve negatively and ultimately would become a living hell for her, I could accept.  The phrase "would become a/your living hell" also seems to have a better, less-rushed rhythmic flow.  Just my opinion.  I would use "and that all those holes I left unfilled . . . would become a/your living hell" to close out this stanza.  You could also use "and that all those holes that I let grow" for a holes/grow internal rhyme, as well as a rhyme with "know" ending the first line.

 

P.S.  With this title and hook, I can't help but think of the iconic Brenda Lee song.   I guess that's okay, but I thought I'd mention that song anyway, with a warning that I think any musical similarity between this as a song and that song - even just a similar musical "vibe" - should be consciously avoided.

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19 hours ago, Snabbu said:

Hi Lazz

 

That would be song crafting Discussions , rather than do all that again there is an article here and a discussion that deals with this.

https://forums.songstuff.com/member/articles/song-writing_38/lyrics-writing_42/song-structure-r18/?tab=comments#comment-3

 

Cheers

 

Gary

Sadly -I am denied permission to access that article and discussion.

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1 hour ago, Lazz said:

Sadly -I am denied permission to access that article and discussion.

As am I :rolleyes:

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9 hours ago, HoboSage said:

What hurtful words?  As the lyric itself makes clear later in the second verse, "angry words and fights" did not come until later in the marriage "as time passed by."  This asserted "living hell" for her comes in the second half of the first verse nearer the start of the marriage, and the only thing the lyric offers as supporting such a dramatic assertion at that point in the story is that he was too naive to know she had needs too, and that he now realizes he wasn't meeting her needs back then.  That's why the assertion that every night was a living hell for her at that point in the story jumped out at me as too melodramatic.  Moreover, if every night was a living hell for her from the start, before the arguments began and before they maybe even had kids, my respect for her, if not my sympathy, is greatly diminished given she that stuck around as long as she did despite the constant living hell.  You're telling the story, not me.  But, FWIW, because of that over-the-top unsupported assertion of a living hell in the first verse, at that point the story lost credibility for me.  A tweak indicating that the dysfunctional marriage would continue to evolve negatively and ultimately would become a living hell for her, I could accept.  The phrase "would become a/your living hell" also seems to have a better, less-rushed rhythmic flow.  Just my opinion.  I would use "and that all those holes I left unfilled . . . would become a/your living hell" to close out this stanza.  You could also use "and that all those holes that I let grow" for a holes/grow internal rhyme, as well as a rhyme with "know" ending the first line.

 

P.S.  With this title and hook, I can't help but think of the iconic Brenda Lee song.   I guess that's okay, but I thought I'd mention that song anyway, with a warning that I think any musical similarity between this as a song and that song - even just a similar musical "vibe" - should be consciously avoided.

Your point is well taken.

 

I know about Brenda Lee's song.  You're right about how it would be easy to plagiarize.  Thats one reason I changed to title.

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5 hours ago, Lazz said:

Sadly -I am denied permission to access that article and discussion.

I reposted the article to this site 

I can't repost the following discussions because of copy right issues.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

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Hi Jim,

 

I thoroughly enjoyed your re-write. You did a great job condensing it down. I don’t think it’s too generic at all. You are telling a story that has happened over a lifetime. How could you go into further detail in just one song? You can’t. 

 

Keep up the good work!

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Thanks.  I'm still struggling with the melody.  Dang Brenda Lee for that iconic song in 1960.😀

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Hi Jim

For what it's worth I think the edit lost what the song had and the timeline progression is now to fast and generic.

Before you could see it deteriorating bit by bit. 

 

Cheers

 

Gary

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