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Barneyboy

Political Hate

67 posts in this topic

Well it all started with Jefferson vs Adams here in the US and we've never looked back. Fake news, smearing, and real nastiness won that election for Jefferson. It's something that has been around a long time. All of our super hyper connectivity in the modern age amplifies it. I think there have been cyclical times of nastiness in American politics though this does feel to be a generally horrible time to live in politically. Both sides make sweeping generalizations to categorize the other sides view points and define them for each other to discredit whole swaths of opinions they disagree with. It does feel very tribal and often does not live in a factual place. In this day and age everyone has their own media. Each side will decry the other side and the battle lines are fought viciously against each other on all fronts except the physical ones. At some point as we drive each other to extremes I fear that those extremes will drive out and the insane start to become the sane. 

 

At the end of the day there is a mentality these days to do anything it takes to win the argument. No one can say they don't know. No one can admit they are wrong about anything. No quarter, no holds barred. Win the argument! 

 

There are real issues and problems to be solved. Many don't have watered down simplified black and white answers and most of the noise that fights for hearts and minds of men cannot acknowledge those nuances in a sound bite. 

 

Facebook fascinates me in that it only takes 5 posts to scroll down and hit a thought control piece from one side of the political spectrum or another. Rarely are those posts anything useful or factual or nuanced. They get their target audiences going though. Spun up with shares. Carrying water for someone else's agenda. We're all being farmed in a way I think. Glance at my FB feed 3 posts in today... Crops are plentiful at the moment... 

 

 

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On 6/22/2017 at 04:16, kuya said:

But Joan,one of  the reasons we even have a nation is because we had access to better weapons (kentucky long rifles) than the average redcoat we were shooting against. They had these black busses i think they were called that were only good for shooting at a line of soldiers. We were almost invaded by japan in ww2 but they quickly realized that america was so well armed that submission would be impossible.   That argument is what is driving the 2nd amendment folks and its true. Give up our personal weapons and we give up any way of truly protecting our freedom. 

 

I just noticed this. Sadly, Kuya, I think everything here is based on a myth.

 

The reason you won the war of independence was ... the French. Even though we Brits were at war elsewhere and our sub-standard soldiers were vastly outnumbered, the Americans were being defeated until the French stepped in. http://www.cracked.com/article_20306_5-myths-about-revolutionary-war-everyone-believes.html

 

Japan never had any serious plans to invade the USA in WW2. Their ambitions were in the Asia-Pacific region and they didn't think they could take Hawaii, let alone the entire USA. It would require a navy far greater than they ever had. They certainly didn't give a damn about some armed civilians.

 

So, who are you protecting your freedom from? The rest of the free world? And how free are you... really? You have laws about how to cross a road and you can't even enjoy a beer on the beach. I don't feel very free whenever I go there, for sure.

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2 hours ago, Alistair S said:

 

So, who are you protecting your freedom from? The rest of the free world? And how free are you... really? You have laws about how to cross a road and you can't even enjoy a beer on the beach. I don't feel very free whenever I go there, for sure.

 

The answer is simple..........from all threats, foreign and domestic!

These debates/arguments boil down to fundamental differences in our beliefs.

It has been discussed for a long time now...........and in today's climate, I am even more convinced that I am safer with a fully functioning 2nd Amendment and all the associated, and fully loaded hardware.

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58 minutes ago, HoboSage said:

 

 

The first is guidance - not law! It's mainly to teach children some road safety :)

 

Your second link is about local attempts to control Welsh people. They're a law unto themselves! 

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6 hours ago, Ironknee said:

The answer is simple..........from all threats, foreign and domestic!

These debates/arguments boil down to fundamental differences in our beliefs.

It has been discussed for a long time now...........and in today's climate, I am even more convinced that I am safer with a fully functioning 2nd Amendment and all the associated, and fully loaded hardware.

 

And that's fine! I wasn't arguing against the second amendment. I was arguing about what happened during the revolutionary war and WWII (and whether the second amendment has much to do with protecting freedom).

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20 minutes ago, Alistair S said:

 

And that's fine! I wasn't arguing against the second amendment. I was arguing about what happened during the revolutionary war and WWII (and whether the second amendment has much to do with protecting freedom).

Well...there is the history of Churchill's England, during the war, and at his request, receiving our American guns....from farmers, factory workers, and the like, because we in America have the 2nd Amendment affording the rights to bear arms.

And thank God that we were able to send those guns!

And we will do it again, if necessary!!  :D

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18 minutes ago, Ironknee said:

Well...there is the history of Churchill's England, during the war, and at his request, receiving our American guns....from farmers, factory workers, and the like, because we in America have the 2nd Amendment affording the rights to bear arms.

And thank God that we were able to send those guns!

And we will do it again, if necessary!!  :D

 

I think you will find that what you sent was mostly food, vehicles and other equipment - which was very welcome (and which we have now paid for in full). I don't think you can claim that the US arms industry is a result of the second amendment as much as the result of the second world war.

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Alistair, 

       You are correct.   The French were instrumental in our war of independence. Our Kentucky long rifles were a real nuisance to the British, who were by no means a second rate army, but they didn't determine the outcome.  The French help is what put us over the top. Battle of Yorktown, I think. Plus the French navy running the blockades.  And the major European war, of which our war of independence was a small theater of operation is also largely downplayed in our classrooms. The British had their hands full. 

        As for Japan, no they didn't seriously consider an invasion of the west coast. They almost instantly realized the futility of trying. They did however attempt to take the Aleutian islands in Alaska, kept one or two for awhile, and succeeded in taking Philippines, and Guam too I believe, American posessions at the time.  In America the instrumentality of France is downplayed. As is the same for USSR in WW2. History is fascinating. 

       

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2 hours ago, kuya said:

History is fascinating. 

 

Yes, I agree! Thank you for coming back :)

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10 hours ago, Alistair S said:

 

I think you will find that what you sent was mostly food, vehicles and other equipment - which was very welcome (and which we have now paid for in full). I don't think you can claim that the US arms industry is a result of the second amendment as much as the result of the second world war.

 

I was never a History major in college, but I did take American and World History classes. And Americans responded hugely with arms and munitions. But, I guess we were all taught different things in school.

For easy references, there are many stories and testimonies, on the internet, that substantiate these events in history. Stories of Brits returning guns to the American owners (thru the mail) with much thanks and gratitude. So I don't know why you would think that the 2nd Amendment, that clearly allows citizens to possess firearms, didn't contribute to your war effort. Had your citizenry possed firearms of their own we wouldn't be discussing this.

Anyways, whether we believe in the 2nd Amendment, or not, it doesn't make cause to act out violently, nor does it mitigate the circumstances of violence. I am one that does not believe that the ends justifying the means.

 

And as far as the "food, vehicles and other equipment - which was very welcome (and which we have now paid for in full)".........I'm glad to hear it :D

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Just now, Ironknee said:

 

Anyways, whether we believe in the 2nd Amendment, or not, it doesn't make cause to act out violently, nor does it mitigate the circumstances of violence. I am one that does not believe that the ends justifying the means.

 

 

Me neither. Happy to agree on that :)

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If songwriters ruled the world there might be more harmony. 

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4 hours ago, kuya said:

If songwriters ruled the world there might be more harmony. 

Is Rap actually songwriting....and would they qualify to rule the world?:o

 

:D-T

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16 hours ago, Alistair S said:

 

I think you will find that what you sent was mostly food, vehicles and other equipment - which was very welcome (and which we have now paid for in full). I don't think you can claim that the US arms industry is a result of the second amendment as much as the result of the second world war.

 

I think you will find that what you sent was mostly food, vehicles and other equipment - which was very welcome (and which we have now paid for in full). I don't think you can claim that the US arms industry is a result of the second amendment as much as the result of the second world war.

 

We can argue about what was sent but bottom line is we sent men, arms and equipment to fight the invading German army.  I beg to differ with you regarding the build up of the US arms industry.  If not for the second amendment our arms industry would not have advanced to where it is today.  Men like Colt or Browning would not have taken a muzzle loading single shot firearm to a cartridge loading multiple shot weapon.  Gatling would not have invented the first machine gun. The second amendment opened up this whole industry of creating a useful, effective and economic way for Americans to own guns.  I dare say what have the Brits designed or created in terms of firearms as the result of ww2?  Without America's foresight of building the second amendment into the Constitution and America's love of freedom Europe might be just be a huge Germany.  

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Of course writing rap is writing a song.  But, if rappers ruled the world, I don't think they'd care about harmony.  :)

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Back to the topic.  I gave kudos to Sanders for condemning the shooting of Republican lawmakers.  Sadly, but not surprisingly, I must revoke those kudos after hearing what he said just a few days after his fake condemnation. He could not hide his evil intentions by morphing back into his attack mode against Trump by calling on people to take down the President.  The left wing rhetoric against a duly elected President continues and I'm afraid may lead to more crazies doing crazy things. 

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