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Salley Gardens

Theme Discussion

89 posts in this topic

Can we PM someone instead? I don't want Ram yelling at me....

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Im gonna throw a handful to the wind, some mentioned before...some not.

Love

Kids

War

Poverty

Absence

Earth

Hamsters

:lol:

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songwriters from around the world

different backgrounds

different beliefs

different ages

different life experiences

different tastes in music

what do we all believe in

what do we all have in common (other than our feelings for Ram) :blink:

what would make someone want to hear what we have to sing about

or possibly adopt our music for a cause or an organization

the theme must be current / topical / important

Does a song about how sad I am cuz my baby left me really matter?

From Marty's list the topic EARTH and

that we muse over what we (humans) have done to our earth.

What can we do to save her/it?

What have governments & industry been doing

A song could be about holes in the ozone or be about a drunk who gets behind the wheel of an oil tanker. The kioto accord polka (well maybe not)

I'm sure you get the idea

Cheers

b

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On second thought lets go with Hampsters!

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Social Issues such as...

The environment

Poverty

Crime

etc...

They don't have to be NEGATIVE songs (just as Ram's comments don't have to be negative). There are lots of positive things to say about the state of the world today.

Actually, I really like Marty's idea about doing EARTH as the theme. After all, the title of the CD is "Planet Muse"

Neal

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So right Neal

a song could be about anything say... "Salley's Garden"

or about the beauty of nature or or or

there are many a positive spin to be put on the Earth topic

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I've got two favorites, now, a Kid's CD and a beauty of the Earth CD...

...but hampsers definitely has my attention,!

I bet comedy would work well, too.

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I like the idea of a natural force that can be taken literally or symbolically. Like the wind or rain.

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I just want to make sure that these thoughts are official :lol:

That's alright Mike go ahead. I can't promise that I won't list them though :huh:

Does this mean theme has won over Genre? I haven't yet read ALL the posts.

Hey B. Nice to know you care :P

Hi Neal. Right you are.Plenty of positive things to write about poverty, crime and the environment etc.,

Naw I haven't got any thoughts to publish on the Theme of the CD.

Ram

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Maybe an album about environment, and such. The good sides (the beauty of Earth, as some said) and the bad ones (natural disasters, destruction of nature by the hands of men, stuff).

Just 2 cents.

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Love

Kids

War

Poverty

Absence

Earth

Hamsters

I'm sure it'd be possible to write a song about all those.<g>

Seriously, me for the hamsters, too. And a FWIW suggestion to make things interesting. (You're supposed to run, by the way, if a poker player says that.) How about having each song be about hamsters *and one other thing off that list*? In other words, you could end up with things like "Love Among the Hamsters," "War of the Hamsters," "The Absence of Hamsters," or "Hamsters of Earth, Unite!" And of course, you'd want a variety of genres--some hip-hop, some R&B, some country, some folk. Think of it--it'd probably be the first time ever that anyone had written an R&B song (or any other kind of song, for that matter) about hamsters.

So it's already got a title, huh? Too bad--I was going to suggest one. "Muses to Soothe the Savage Rodent"--by (what else?) "The Hamsters." I could even see the album cover...

Let me know. I will live with whatever y'all come up with, even if it's tamer.

Joe

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I think hamsters... would be a little too jokey... (but then again, I like the Barenaked Ladies)

Here are some ideas:

Open Road

Sports (everyone pick a different sport)

Hope for the future

Breaking up

falling in love

and a jokey one:

The end of the earth...

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Some competition in the hamster songs arena...

I don't think the end of the world theme has to be jokey. In fact, I'm sure some submissions would be so heavy that the jokey ones would be needed just to keep things balanced and listenable.

I still like the kids' music idea. I'd also be partial to any theme related to the Muse community at large... songs about songwriting, perhaps?

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How 'bout; Sports -> Football -> Rams?

But the childrens CD sounds good also.

And politics.

War could be political.

The End of the Earth could be political.

Poverty could be political.

Environment could be political.

Crime could be political.

Natural forces is a nice idea also.

Comedy, good idea.

Earth, not bad.

Hampsters -> "spinning wheel, round and round..."

How 'bout; Painted Ponies?

Could be a good time to go political...

This is not meant to be ambiguous, nor is it meant to cast a definite vote, but if need be, I'm goin' political at the moment...

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Another into the wind

How about......."Us"

Each individual writes deeply personal song that represents them or thier life experience in a true way. This brings a little realism to the audience, after all its all about bringing attention to the community.

So if your life is your Kids, your pet Hampster,global issues,protest or anything as long as it truly depicts you and your ecperiences, maybe it will even demonstrate the passions that pushed you in the direction of writing/composing.

??? :unsure:

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Some ideas

1. We could pick a famous film or book and write about some aspect or characters from it.

2. All songs based on a film or book or have a film/book title

3. The Musesmuse Musical ? (someone would need to storyboard this) and we write songs to fit the story

4. Just some kind of concept album for example: all the things that can happen on a Saturday Night/Sunday morning? :)

Nige

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A concept album about the good and bad sides of being a songwriter. :P

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Earth (good and bad) or the environment

Kids theme probably would have the most commercial appeal

Rick

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Some ideas

1. We could pick a famous film or book and write about some aspect or characters from it.

2. All songs based on a film or book or have a film/book title

3. The Musesmuse Musical ? (someone would need to storyboard this) and we write songs to fit the story

4. Just some kind of concept album for example: all the things that can happen on a Saturday Night/Sunday morning? :)

Nige

Just when I think I've got my mind made, you come along and open it... :)

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Another into the wind

How about......."Us"

Each individual writes deeply personal song that represents them or thier life experience in a true way.  This brings a little realism to the audience, after all its all about bringing attention to the community.

So if your life is your Kids, your pet Hampster,global issues,protest or anything as long as it truly depicts you and your ecperiences, maybe it will even demonstrate the passions that pushed you in the direction of writing/composing.

??? :unsure:

I like this idea... tho it doesn't have to be that "deeply personal" - just personal enough so that others (who listen to/buy the CD) can relate :)

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I like both the "us" idea ,,,and the Muse Musical....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm some definate promotional qualities to both of those.

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The life, death, and partial pickling of Rasputin

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Jes' my opinion, but I think "us" is too general a topic to be marketable. Who the [expletive deleted] cares about "us"? (Hamsters, now...)

And the musical really is a good idea. Entails quite a bit more work. I think this group probably has the talent collectively to pull it off, but is there the willingness to invest the time and effort? For starters, it'd be necessary to have some more of these fun discussions about what story (or even what sort of story) to use for a framework to hang the music on.

(Of course, you could always follow the Disney model--find a fairly interesting fairy tale, one that hasn't been done before, add a bunch of cute, fuzzy animals (this is where the hamsters would come in), and Presto!)

Oh, and--unrelated--"The End of the World" isn't a bad theme, folks. ("The Muse's Muse Presents---The End of the World!" Yes!) My contribution, of course, would be country; there are some good country-music songs written about the end of the world, but none of them have been written by me. Mine would probably also have hamsters in it, Just Because.

Joe

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How about......."Us"

Each individual writes deeply personal song that represents them or thier life experience in a true way. This brings a little realism to the audience, after all its all about bringing attention to the community.

How about......."ME" :lol::lol::lol:

SilkyPestTofuMaker

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How about......."Us"

Each individual writes deeply personal song that represents them or thier life experience in a true way. This brings a little realism to the audience, after all its all about bringing attention to the community.

How about......."ME" :lol::lol::lol:

SilkyPestTofuMaker

awww silky ??

wouldn't that be just like writing about "hamsters"...

<grin>

Brina

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I feel a Profound Statement coming on. (Those who feel the need to should duck and cover now.) In the end, the entire breadth and depth of human experience can be expressed by hamsters. Not always well, y'understand (envision hamsters performing Macbeth).

Joe

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As general as it can be, the theme could be simply 'life'.

Maybe something a la Dark Side of The Moon, a song representing birth, then childhood, adolescence, adulthood, old age, stuff.

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I think we shouldn't make the theme too general

I mean even if we were really specific

(is my hampster a boy?)

we would still come up with 12 different tunes.

If the theme was "life" as pg suggested it would be almost

like no theme at all (no offence gp JMO)

I really like the idea of an environmental/earth CD directed at kids.

In fact I would add that the songs should have a positive message or feel.

The songs would have to be smart, they could be funny AND you gotta think that

a collection like that would spark some interest out there

in the real world.

hmmm that's about 6 bits so far...

b

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The songs would have to be smart

No need to disqualify yourself B. :lol:

The songs can be stupid too.

Ram

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The songs can be stupid too.

Ram

Oh sure Ram you trying to use that natural ability of yours to get an edge on the rest of us? :lol:

ha ha ha that was just too easy :D

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Sorry B.

No points. I got you first and you're just riding on my tailcoats sonnyboy. B)

Ram

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Didn't mean nuthin by it Ram

you know I care!

just a friendly shot at an open net

B

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That was icing pardner :lol:

O.K. so we know the CD will be Theme based. Now some are deciding the theme.

Does that mean that it will be an open genre competition?

Ram

p.s. HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!!!!!!!! :blink::D

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That was icing pardner :lol:

O.K. so we know the CD will be Theme based. Now some are deciding the theme.

Does that mean that it will be an open genre competition?

Ram

p.s. HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!!!!!!!! :blink:  :D

Yup! Open genre it is.

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How about bad relationships? Break up songs, strained or strange relationships. It could be a bit edgy, lyrically anyway.

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Is it still okay to suggest thematics? How then 'bout city themes?

That's an interesting idea.

I'm not sure how you meant it, but having songs with city names in the title could be a way to go.

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HONESTY SESSION.

Who has suggested something on the basis that they already have a song/s in mind that would fit the idea?

mmm i bet a few did.... lol

:lol::lol::lol:

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Can someone refresh my memory? Is this CD

1. A vanity project in which the participants will cover the entire cost from their own pockets?

2. A promotional project, not intended to recover its costs directly but intended to create a positive reaction to Muses Muse?

3 A semi-commercial project intended to at least recover its costs from sales?

4 An amalgam of 2 & 3 ?

5 A fully commercial project intended to sell enough to cover costs and leave something over for future investment (whilst also achieving some positive promotional aim by virtue of this "success")?

It's just that IMO the choice of theme, and the parameters of how it is presented, are absolutely dependent on the answer to the above and no amount of democratic voting will make a right choice out of a wrong one if CD sales are an issue.

If sales are not an issue, then unless the answer is 1. (a vanity project, where nothing really matters but its completion), the theme chosen is, IMO, entirely secondary to the quality of the writing and performances of the individual songs as far as the completed project is concerned, and could therefore be quite arbitrary.

If sales are an issue then (again IMO) the theme must be one which can generate a CD with some degree of musical homogeneity - you cannot take a theme home and listen to it: a theme could whet your appetite, draw you in - but although it might encourage a "try before you buy", the songs would still have to live up to musical expectations to clinch the deal.

Remember, whether 1,2,3,4 or 5, this CD will not be a compilation of proven hits drawn together under an appealing label, it will - initially at least ;) - be a collection of unheard songs by writers and performers unknown to anyone outside the Muse community. It needn't be confined to a single genre, but IMO unless it also has some musical cohesiveness it is very unlikely to make an impression beyond the community, however "interesting" the theme which binds it together.

OK. carry on suggesting... :P

(I won't be on the CD anyway, I write crap and use Band in a Box to sing to :lol: )

Cheers

Frank.

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Frank raises some good points. Me for #5, by the way--I think if you're going to sink time and effort into it, you should be endeavoring to make a profit. And yes, the profit can be "seed money" for the next one.

That said, the decisions you make about theme(s), et al., will have a bearing on the profitability of the CD. I would urge not being too vague--onde of the potentially attractive points about a multi-genre CD by a bunch of unknowns is that it, well, has a point. It can be as odd as you want (I really was partial to "Hamsters of the World, Unite!"), but what matters, I think, is that it be specific. You might want to think what kind of niche market you'll be hitting with your theme--that'll be the first marketing place for your record. (With the theme above, for instance--*just* for instance--you'd want to find every hamster club or rodent appreciation society you could, and figure out how to convince them that they--and their hamsters--reall, *really* needed to have a copy of this here CD.)

And speaking for myself, no, I didn't have anything already "canned" for any of the subject matters (subjects matter?) heretofore suggested. Whatever y'all decide on, I'll just wait for the Muse to slug me and see what (if anything) comes out.

Joe

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Some thoughts to ponder...

It is highly unlikely this project will make any money.

I doubt that it will sell enough copies to cover basic costs.

Without an organization backing the project, a budget should be put together for all costs and a small initial run.

The costs would be born by the artisits who songs make it onto the CD.

They can be reembursed somewhat once the initial run sells.

Think about it, how do you obtain your music these days

do you run out to buy, or go to CD Baby and purchase a CD of unknowns?

I doubt it. Our first project proves this point.

People buy CD's when they see the artist perform or when it is in support of a cause. Other than that most download the tunes or get em from friends.

Remember we couldn't get sales from our own to cover costs.

If we however have a theme to the CD... perhaps while it is being put together we can find a cause or organization willing to back the project and we then donate any proceeds...

there is a chance that the project could raise funds for a worthy cause.

As an example if we were to say that AIDS was the theme to this CD project

and as we are writing the songs and puting things together we could be approaching anyone we know that has anything to do with AIDS research or fundraising or hospice or....

OR let's say that Global Warming was the theme

OR Conservation

OR Endagered Species

OR Child Hunger OR OR OR OR

So I guess what I'm trying to say here is that unless you want to have another vanity project, it has to have some meaning up front. Preferably tied to some organization that appreciates the creative songwriting process. We could use the first CD to help us find some organization that would be interested in using this website and our talents to raise awareness and perhaps raise a few bucks by tapping into all the talent that lies within it's members.

If this project is intended to be commercial to make money just so that we can do it again It will just be another CD.

However if we bring together our collective talents with the intent of helping others.... we will succeed, no matter the outcome.

BTW ... I purchased 100 copies of the first project to give them away as a bonus when someone buys my CD. People find it interesting when I explain how the CD was produced and some really like it but it has no real value to them other than the fact that it was a gift from me. There is nothing tied to it, I know if I were to introduce it saying they were helping to "Save The ____"

by purchasing the CD there would be a different reaction.

Guilt, simpathy and awareness can sell.

Please feel free to talk amongst yourselves

just my opinion

Cheers

b

One more suggestion... how about all songs to be muse member collaberations

and have a realistic target date of January 1, 2007 for release.

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I would say 75% of all the cd's I buy to study are compilation cds ..... not just because they are in the $5.99 basket :) , but because they offer me a wider variety of songs within the specific genre the cd covers . Some are country , some are easy listening soft rock , some are pop variations , and others classic rock . Each song seems to follow one another quite well on these compilation cds because of being in the same basic genre , and they seem to offer a wide variation of song themes as well as song styles to keep your interest .

I honestly don't think I have a theme cd beyond one compilation cd I bought that was titled "Prom Night Love Songs" :lol: , and I don't think one dame song on it ever mentioned the word Prom ---- but at least they were all soft rock and pop ... so there was a connection created in that way .

Is there any verification or evidence anywhere that illustrates more commercial success from multi-genre theme cds , over and above the success of genre specific compilation efforts ? I mean , I never buy bags of frozen mixed vegetables , because I know there are some I just won't like --- so I wonder if being an amateur songwriting compilation cd isn't enough of a commercial disadvantage to begin with .

Just a question ??

Don

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Don brought something to mind...

I have been doing a weekly radio program for the past three years.

On the program I play nothing but local music. I have no specific genre

for the show only that it be local artists. I get quite a number of CD's sent to me in all genre's and in various productions. Some are $10,000 productions, some are recorded at a home studio etc etc.

What I have noticed is that the simpler the recording (ie one instrument and one vocal) the less of a genre based impact it has on the listener. If you don't like a particular genre you tend not to hear it that way.

So the thought would be to have a collection of songs that were recorded more "songwriter" style than genre. Some of it comes through no matter what but if it's the Muses Muse songwriting site that is putting this out how could we tie it to a genre?

AND they say that the truly great songs come through on a simple recording.

Simpler recording would also allow more members to submit.

Just another thought...or two

Cheers

b

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For what it's worth...

I buy soundtracks all the time - mostly because there's a bunch of different kinds of music (that somehow relates to the movie - sometimes lol), most of which I love.

Doesn't exactly fit the discussion, because it's not exactly theme related... but you get the point.

Also, I do buy compilation/theme based CD's - like 25 greatest love songs etc.

I think it's rather obvious that no one here is going to make the mega bucks on this CD project - but is that really the point?

:)

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SIB I think we have not got to the discussion/vote concerning the point/aim of the CD itself.There were some talks of hobbyist(vanity) vs commerical however I think not that many members at that time got involved and so no consensus or decision was taken about the CD's "aim".

Ram

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I wasn't talking about the point of the CD, Ram... I was talking about the point (motivation) for the artists and others to be involved in this project.

The main point I made, was that while I may not be in the majority - I am not alone in enjoying compilation CDs - especially if I a.) recognize and like an artist(s) on the CD b.) like the theme or genre of the CD.

Since we've established that the CD will be theme based, I like most of the suggestions already brought forward:

1 - Kids CD

2 - Love

3 - "Us" (which will, of course, narrow our target audience, but I think it's a stellar idea, Marty)

4 - Beauty of the Earth/Travel/Cities

Just my opinion... as always, very interested in how this will turn out :)

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