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A.N.T.I.

About Rick D:

130 posts in this topic

Some of you may remember me posting on here a couple of months ago that I was heading up to Canada for a couple of weeks to record my first album. It was an amazing opportunity given to me be a Canadian producer who didn't charge me a dime for it. I really did learn a huge amount while I was up there, and in the weeks that followed my return to the States.

My reason for this post is to let you guys know that there isn't going to be an album. I worked my butt off while I was up there and laid down the tracks to what I thought was going to be an awesome album. Unfortunately following my return, the producer I was working with became less and less communicative. He insisted that Sony was interested and wanted the album so my hopes were high, but a few weeks ago he stopped calling. I have tried to contact him through email and phone but his phones are disconnected. I am still in touch with his buisness associates who have explained to me that for some reason, the producer felt he had to lie to me about most everything while I was up there. So basically, the album is recorded but because or circumstances outside of my control I will probably never see it.

This is a HUGE disappointment to me. I worked my butt off for months before going up there and even more once I was there to try and do this the best I can.. so to loose it because the producer is a flake, really hurt. You may have noticed that I havn't been posting a whole lot since my return. I needed some time to basically get over the let down. To go from "Hey, sony heard the stuff and want to sign you" to "sorry Russ, everything you were told is a lie.. sony never heard the tracks and you will never see the album" took a while to get through.

The up side? Well, there really isn't one.. lesson learned I guess. I have started writing again and will get back into recording in my home studio, but this whole thing really did destroy any confidence I had. I'll move on and get back to doing what I love again. I'm not going to mention the producers name nor the company he works for as I really don't want to lower myself to his level. Just know that some of you on this board would probably know who he is if I dropped the name.. but like I said, I'm not into slander.

What frustrates me the most is that he had nothing to gain from screwing me over. He said the tracks were great and that he is sure they will secure something for me in the industry, so for him to just drop it like that was a waste of his time and money. I guess it's not for me to understand though.

Thanks everyone here for your kind words and support while I was getting ready to go up and.. it really does me a huge amount to me.

The music is alive and my love for it is real

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awwww I am so sorry to hear about that A.N.T.I

it's not so much slander...as protecting others out there who may in the future run into him.

I was feeling really let down for you reading that, God I can't imagine what a blow that was, I'd imediately go through an *I'm gonna kick some ass attitude* :angry:

your heart comes through it all though, the reason we all do it, is because in the end... money or no money..fame or no fame.. we love to do it.

It's their loss by the way, you are excellent at what you do.

Smile.

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Awww that is sad to hear....

Do you have the masters of what you recorded?

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Mate I'm sorry to hear what you have been / are going through - it must be heartbreaking. I guess you don't have copies of anything?

I think you should take a little note of who this guy is associated with, it may be that some of your stuff is released &/or re-recorded along the way.

It would be good for the industry, or just for us "little guys" to keep a record of people / companies / deals you can't trust.

BTW can I interest you in a little Nigerian Bank transaction?

Clayton

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Anti,

Are you saying,you recorded an album,and he has it.......Do you have proof that it's yours//////? He might re- do it and ,claim it as his........I felt you were a little vague,and I know we all want to know more about this terrible situation.

I do hope you have copies of these songs,and proof......I really think it would be good for everyone to know the name of this guy,for protection.

OH! my ,this is awful,what a let down for you.

Gee ,who can we trust?don't know.

Claire J :unsure:

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A.N.T.I., I'm so sorry to hear that. :( I honestly don't know what else to say but that we all sympathize and we're here for you. Don't let that flake stop your music, ok?

All the best,

--Jodi

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Russ, that's so heartbreaking. I don't think you could have done much to prevent this. I mean, you weren't born yesterday...but it wouldn't hurt you to have a lawyer at your fingertips just in case. (I'm thinking of Claire's post.)

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Thanks for you kind words guys. To answer some of your questions, my songs are copmletely protected. I hold the rights to all the songs recorded (which were all originals) but as pointed out, he holds the recordings. The album was in the rough stages when I left. All my parts were done (vocals, bg vox and guitars) and we were waiting on drums and the rest of the guitars to come back from sweden. As far as I can gather, his company just fell down and I was unfortunately stuck in the middle. We did have a contract stating only that the album would be recorded and that I was not responsible for any costs. I think I just got stuck in the middle of a bad thing. The only thing I have from the 2 weeks are 2 VERY rough tracks that were first in line to be finished. To be honest, I don't really like how they came out even.. all the emotion and sincerity was gone from them.

I wish I could explain the situation better for you but I don't have the answers. All I know is when I left, I was told that I would have the mastered album in 2 weeks and that I would be needing to go back to toronto in a couple of weeks to meet with Sony. This is kind of a "no sense" situation where there really isn't a rational reason for things going the way they did and trying to rationalize the whole thing would be pointless and counter productive to moving on.

Thanks again you guys.

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Big sorry to hear that going out to you Russ. The words "candian" and "Producer" ring a bell with me, I may be jumping to conclusions but this may be the same team who have let me down and others here, hope not, but the ignorance tactic seems familiar.

I dont pass by here very often now but couldnt leave out a message here, you will bounce back mate, stay in touch.

Marty

Will pM my email address

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Hey, I'm a Torontonian. If you're totally sure the business relationship is irreconcilable, and you want your recordings back, I'm sure FunkDaddy and myself can go up to them and drop a little "YO B**** PEEP THIS". B)

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Hey ANTI,

It sounds like you guys just recorded the basic tracks and didn't get to mixing them. If so, see if the guy will send you the tracks. He has no use for them anyway, so he shouldn't object. Then you can go somewhere else to mix and master the rest.

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Actually they were about half way though mixing the first 5-6 tracks when it hit the fan. I have tried to contact them but all their phones are disconnected.. go figure.

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Hi ANTI

I?m a little bit pissed that my post from yesterday went awol (but probably not as much as you are ;) ), but you seemed to have answered most of my questions, maybe you saw it anyway.

Although the outcome was not as you would have liked, I am sure you can get something out of this.

Nigel

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Hey Russ,

Sorry to hear that...I was just thinking earlier today 'what's happening with Russ and Sony?!?!' and was coming in to ask you, and then that error happened where no one could get in. Weird huh? Anyways....I'm sorry you wasted your time...but I'm glad to hear you're back and the music won't suffer because of a few morons in Canada.

It'll happen for you.

I have faith.

Peace,

Ulli

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OMFG!! You don't do that to anyone specially to you... Hey I love your songs, I'll start a petition to hear your album! Anyone with me?

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Ahhhh man, that sucks. If the guy is in Toronto, give me his name and address, I'll bring the Westside boyz and Tony the Leopard down to crack some skulls.

But seriously, sorry to hear that, I was excited for you reading about the Sony stuff. :( Didn't you have dinner with a guy from Sony? Why not contact him?

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Hi Russ,

It was strange reading through your post there. I can totally relate. Perhaps it will make you feel better to know that you're not the only person out there who's been screwed?

In 2002 I was approached by this guy Mike from L.A.. He claimed to be working for Warner Music in their promotions dept, but he said what he really wanted was to be a manager so he was looking for some good talent. He then invited me to go to San Fransisco to record a new demo CD as one of his best friends worked as a producer/engineer up there. We kept in touch via emails and telephone for almost a year before I eventually bought my flight ticket from Norway to San Fran. It would prove lucky that I brought a friend with me.

I never actually met Mike as he was down in L.A. The engineer Andy met us at the airport and we stayed at his place. As we started recording, I immediately got suspicious as he didn't seem to know what the hell he was doing. The studio was top notch but there had to be a reason why we were being smuggled in after 6pm? The guy was an amateur with a bad ear and he was impossible to work with. We were actually shouting at each other on the first day, and I don't shout at people.

Before I left Norway, I had ben assured that the only expense I would have was the flight ticket. However, as I had to pay for food and transport myself, my frustration grew. After a dinner at Andy's, my friend casually asked him how long Mike had worked for Warner Music. "Warner Music?" he said, confused. "Mike's been unemployed for years!" I was raging. This was the same guy who had been telling me stories from his office! It turned out they had met when Mike was working in Tower Records - as a security guard. Andy revealed that he had landed his job more or less randomly as this old millionaire was building a studio to use for himself and Andy knew someone who knew this guy.

I had been screwed and I had had enough. My friend and I secretly packed our bags and jumped on the first Greyhound bus to L.A. We had wasted a week in San Fran and decided to go to L.A. for a vacation instead. I sent Andy and Mike an email saying that I was not gonna take their lies anymore and that I wasn't coming back. I laughed as Mike wrote back saying I was unprofessional.

Like you, I got nothing to show for after hours in the studio. The lesson was expensive but useful. This is not a business where you simply trust people. That much I've learned. And I wrote a song about it!

I know you're disappointed, Russ, but don't let it knock you out. Wipe the mud off your face and try again, one lesson richer.

Cheers,

Linda

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Hey Russ,

Sorry to hear about this story. It seems everyday I learn that music and the music business are two separate things...and when first hearing about your going to Canada to record, I was thinking that it was all too good to be true. You're an amazing talent, but I recall you've just started to record your own songs and post them on the lyrics&music forum around last fall. You were doing your thing and focusing on getting better at the craft....And as far as those producers go, I don't assume that they tried to target you like those guys from Statue records, and who knows, maybe their intentions were good in the beginning. But it was no less such a tremendous risk to invest in a brand new talent they've heard of on the net. So I don't think you should be dissapointed, cause it's really the producers who were playing themselves when they could not back their claims. It's a lot of cash spent too, and to what gain? I hope something works out with the recordings, but in any cases keep doing what you do best

Cheers,

David

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I'm sorry to hear about this disappointing experience, A.N.T.I. But thanks anyway for sharing this as it puts everyone in the picture. Very generous of you.

I find the dishonesty of the producer, as you describe him, suddenly ignoring you and not calling, making me angry. I can see you still gained. You gained the recording experience and learnt about how hard you can work and that you can deliver for the asking. Thing is you are not the duffer/bluffer. But what the hell is this guy up to? He's seducing a person with talent and recording ambitions and hasn't got the guts to say he's not taking it any further, and why. It's not even that it isn't business like that bothers me. It's just basically inhuman.

I had one of the Statue record e-mails. Got excited and even told a few people. The other day a neighbour asked what had come of it. I said it was not the offer it seemed. He was nice, said 'that's a shame'.

Re naming the man. You say you are not into slander. It's only slander if it isn't true. If it's true it is a true story put into the public domain. You'll also have a chance to make a bit of money writing an article about your experience, readable with all the colourful details) for the music press and many other publications. 'Songwriting Today' or whatever.

I think that if the guy has had every opportunity to explain (bankruptcy - whatever) for letting you down and hasn't then naming him is good for everyone. I want to know his name because I want to spot him coming. I'd probably still check the deal out, but would be forewarned and forearmed if you know what I mean.

Tell the truth and shame the devil!

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OK.. so I really didn't want to throw names out there but you had convinced me that it would be in the best interests of everyone here. The producer is actually someone who used to come on this board. He is Very talented, but somewhat dishonest. His name is Rick D. I know a few of you guy will know him so let me clear some things up too. Rick worked with a guy called Robert P and I want to make sure that everyone knows that rob is a 100% hones, straght forward and awesome guy. A lot of what happened while I was up there was blamed on Rob but I later found out that none of it was true. Rick's other business partner Ted, is also a great guy who has done nothing but try to help me. I just wanted to be sure that it wasn't the company, rather than the person being ragged on here. I'm still in touch with Rob and Ted (who both have apologized a lot for the way things went and also had their suspicions that they too were getting screwed over) and they are trying to get the tracks for me. Like I said though, I'm just ready to move on.

Landofsong.

That was my thinking on the matter. With nothing to gain for himself, he built up my hopes and really made me think that (for lack of a better term), my dreams were starting to come true. Playing with someones emotions and ambitions like that for no aparant gain is just mean.

Linda.

Thanks for the story.. I'm glad you got a vacation out of it :) It has seemed funny to me because I remember when I went up there, the producer was telling me a story about how he got burned for $20K when he started in the business. He said that some people on the business thing you need to be burned like that before you can make it, kind of paying your dues. He said that he thought that was silly and all he wanted to do was give talented people a good chance and the only thing we wanted in return was it to be passed along somewhere down the line. How ironic.

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The Oxyygen of Publicity.

I'm glad you named him. The thing is nice decent people are often loathe to make a fuss and usually just go sneak away into the nearest corner to recover from the pain and humiliation. But unfortunately this plays right into the hands of mean devious consciously cheating people. Publicity, as I'm glad you can see, is in this case public spirited.

Another way these guys get a hold is through the shame people feel at having been duped. Their honest business partners are sometimes slow to spill the beans -partly because they're hoping it is not true 'this can't be happening to me' and also because family may suffer financially. All kinds of complications. These crooks get everyone in a corner. When people do not publicise what has happened these dishonest people just get away with it for far too long and hurt an awful lot of people.

Thanks for speaking out about this B)

Oh oh, Qualification coming up............................allegedly!

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Anti,

Glad you mentioned it...I was also fed a line of B.S. from this guy...as were others on this board...

I never mentioned it cause he left right about that time...

The web is so full of pretenders...you can't trust anybody online, but you actually went face to face...thats cold.

I always go by "If it sounds too good to be true"...

RLD

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<sigh> I am SO sorry to hear this about someone that we trusted here. :(

In future, if you have suspicions like this, I do hope you'll approach me about them? I don't know if what A.N.T.I. experienced could have been prevented, but at least I could have tried.

All the best,

--Jodi

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There is no reason for you to feel bad about this Jodi. Nothing any of us can do will prevent things like this from happening occassionally. The only protection we have are threads like these where we can let each other know about bad business practices.

One thing I would suggest is a musesmuse BBB where a list of companies with questionable records can be kept, and members can post questions BEFORE they deal with a company or individual that they aren't sure about.

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Helicon thats a hell of an idea, is there anyway something like that can be arranged Jody?

I am glad you mentioned him to A.N.T.I, I know that name and now I am forwarned,

and so are the others on the site, so thank you.

it has nothing to do with bringing him down.. he already brought himself down, and you are not meaning to come down to his level, rather give your muse friends a shot at being forwarned. you will move on and find someone real, you are too good not to.

Smile.

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Thanks guys. I should also point out that I didn't go into this blind. I contacted several people who have worked with him in the past and even a nice young girl who is signed to his label. I couldn't find anyone who (at the time) had anything bad to say about the guy and everything seemed to be great. While I was up there though, I noticed that he was ignoring emails from the young girls father (who was her manager) which kind of concerned me. Basically what I'm saying is that I researched before I jumped in and everything checked out. I think the only person who could have prevented this whole situation coming up was rick himself.

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RLD is right, I too am ashamed as I was offered demos etc which were always promised but never arrived plus many other things which didnt happen and when I tried to contact the guy I got ignored and some excuses. BUT..I never mentioned it here, maybe if I did Russ you may have been a little more cautious..sorry for that..the irony is im known for speaking my mind, but this guy seemed so protected by other respected members of the board I kept it shut, seems we were all fooled to an extent.

I dont believe the guy is all that bad, i just feel he needs to look hard at his business ethics and learn to deal with people better, Im told hes had it tough personally, maybe his mind isnt straight yet after the past, so perhaps that need to be delt with before anymore bad deals. Afterall its all about reputaion and networking and all this bad publicity isnt going to help that at all. Im glad to hear that Rob is genuine as I and others went out of our way when he was ill to send our thoughts and support, just a shame he hasnt more influence, there are full recordings of my and others work floating around Canada or god knows where that I have never heard, seems wierd, I find that frustraiting.

Marty

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Thats kind of the feeling I get about the matter too.. just being ashamed.

example...

The whole time I was up there we were working to a deadline as I supposedly had a meeting with sony. Due to the fact that we were so behind, the meeting was moved from a Monday to a Friday. The friday meeting was setup in woodstock at a local bar where Dave Quilico (who is the head of A&R for Sony Canada) was supposed to be meeting us. So we got there with the disc that was going to be played through the sound system there. The club was kind of a hang out for the younger croud so I was pretty excited to see how it was received too. So Rick got a call on his cell phone from dave (supposedly) saying that he was in the club and to just play the disc as he wanted to be inconspicuous and just listen. I thought that was wierd. So the song played and the Rick got another call (again, unconfirmed) from Dave in which he said that he loved the song and wanted the music. I was supposed to call him in the morning to set up a meeting! I was STOKED! How would you feel if someone said that the head of A&R for Sony wanted your music after hearing just one song?! AWESOME! So despite my concerns that Dave for some reason didn't even wanna come over and meet me, I got super drunk and celebrated. Ted later told me that he knew in his gut this was not right. We all went and drank champagne and smoked cigars and celebrated what was supposed to be one of the best nights of my life. Sony wanted me and nothing could touch me that night.. I was happier that I could have possibly imagined.

So the next morning I told rick that I was going to call Dave (as requested) and set up the meeting. Then something wierd happened. Instead of just giving me the number, he picked up the phone, dialed a number and punched a few buttons and then gave me the phone and told me to leave a message as dave wasn't answering. So I left a nice message and rick said he would probably call back later that day. So I sat next to that phone.. all day. I didn't move. After about 6 hours of waiting, a sudden concern came over me. Why didn't he let me dial the number? So I picked up the phone and hit redail. The number rick had called was the number of THAT PHONE! The buttons he had pressed was to leave a voicemail message on his own phone. I started wondering is Sony was even at the club the night before. I supressed any ager I had in my and tried to keep my hopes up. Maybe I had hit a wrong button myself?

I left Canada the next day and rick gave me daves number to try and call him again. The next morning (back in the states now) rick gave me a call to tell me NOT to call dave as Ted was going to take care of it from then on. I knew then something was wrong then so I called the number he gave me. Big surprise, it was a fake number. So I got the number for Sony Canada and called it. I even got through to Dave Quilico's desk and left him a message. A couple of days later a nice guy called Matt who works in A&R at sony called me back saying "Dave was pretty confused by your message because he doesn't know anyone called Rick D"! He went on to tell me that there was no way Dave was in woodstock friday night as it was the north ny northeast music festival and he was in toronto all weekend! WHAT?! I'm furious! My heart sinks to my knees and I think about how proud and over the moon with joy my parents and close friends were when I told them that sony wanted me.. now just to find out it was all BS. I'm embarassed.. I'm ashamed. All I can think is that I must really suck at what I do and be a friggen moron to boot. I had gone from being the happiest I had ever been, to really feeling worthless and just completely used and stupid.

It took me weeks to get up the nerve to tell my parents what had actually happened. I held this blind hope that maybe it was just some big misunderstanding. I really can't put into words the feeling. My parents have been so supportive of my whole music career and the jubilation on their voices when I told them that sony wanted me is just indescribable. The couple of weeks following my return to the states was really the lowest I have ever been. I just cant put into words how I felt.

To have your emotions and dreams played with like that is just wrong. I want you guys to know that people like this are out there and it doesn't matter if they have a reason or not, some people are just down right mean. So yeah.. thats what happened with the whole sony part of my trip. :blink:

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Russ, I feel for you, buddy. As someobne who prefers to take people on their word I know all too well how it feels to have one's trust betrayed.

I don't have much to add to all all the words of advice and support that have already been offered except for one small thing: Don't lose faith in yourself or others. I know that might be hard to understand right now but in time it will become clearer. EVERY experience in life is an opportunity for growth. You will grow from this!

Simon

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Russ,

That is some sick sh it...sounds like a Jamie Kennedy Experiment or Punk'd segment...'cept it aint funny...

I was given a run around about a song being on hold at Sony, one that he supposedly produced... course I never heard it and the excuses why were amazing...only one cd, lost computer files, blah, blah, blah...

I'm sure it never existed and why someone would do all this is amazing...

I did warn a few folks who I knew had been talking to him, but I thought it was just my experience.

This is obviously a pattern and I hope those on this site who think this guy is for real will have second thoughts...

Live and learn...

RLD

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Hi guys. I don't know if it's practical to create a forum that simply talks about Sharks. My worry is that people will report other people without proof. That could get this entire site closed down. However, what I'd like to do is to pin this particular topic so that it's readily available should anyone be searching on Rick D's name. Pinnning it will also mean that it won't be erased when the board's database is cleaned.

Please - if you run into other Sharks - and you have *proof* - let me know and I'll do the same with those topics, ok?

All the best,

--Jodi

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Hi Jody - You say you hope that if we have bad experiences we will approach you. That will be great - thanks - but - the way it is being said here, openly and democratically, everyone can share the story and assist in getting to the bottom of what's going on. Quite a few people who have had 'dealings' with this particular person can pool their stories to get a fuller picture of 'his (alleged) game' for a start.

I wonder, do you have Rick's contact so that we can question him and ask his reasons for this allegedly strange behavior? That would be very helpful. If he has good reasons for behaving as he 'allegedly' has then it is only fair he should be given to chance to answer for himself.

Someone could phone rick and he could contribute to this thread for example. I know if I had accusations about my behavior I would like the opportunity to answer to them openly. We are still innocent till proved guilty - and that goes for Rick D too.

Thank you in anticipation.

Land

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Hi landofsong. I didn't have any direct contact information for Rick D myself. The fellow who set up that "Pitching Post" section was the only one I was in contact with. He was the one that spoke with Rick to get him involved - and I'm quite certain he thought him to be legit when he did.

The person with the most contact information on him is likely to be A.N.T.I. at this point, I'm afraid.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

All the best,

--Jodi

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ANTI all the things you describe sound so sickening and unreal. How can someone do that? Is it a desease living in such an imaginary world? Do people believe their own lies ? Honesty seems sooo much easier..Just keep the faith man..

I too had the chance to communicate extensively with RickD in private. Being the trusting kind, I took him on his words. I found him to be knowledgeable and (too) helpful : I would ask a simple question, and he would answer in paragraphs and give answers for free. At the time, I was approaching him to do a Muse compilation CD with songs from the award shows, and he was encouraging the project. Evantually I gave up on the idea because I was going through a lot of trouble in my life that made me question my involvment in songwriting. And he seemed understanding of that.

When he was still reviewing in the Pitching Post, he'd spend a lot of time and energy doing it that I was amazed someone that buzy could afford that. I even PMed him once to suggest that he not feel obligated to review hit-and-runner posters we had at the time.

So really, I cannot blame anyone for trusting him. He had "proved" himself to us in the community. He contributed. And he seemed keened on bringing new projects to take us to the next level...if that's not enough to trust someone, then who can you believe in this world ? hmmm....but yea, it's always very hurtful when you get betrayed by someone like that, because there's a part of you that wanted to believe he was for real. Oh wellz <_<

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I know what you mean David.. everything about the guy seemed to be right on. I wish I could give a reason things went the way they did but I can't.

As far as getting in touch with rick to come on here and give his story, I don't know how much luck you will have. I still have his contact numbers and address info but as best as I can tell, his phones are disconnected. Like I said though, I am still in touch with Ted and Rob and I would be more than happy to drop them a line and see if they would like to share with the board.

Let me know what you think.

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You know I feel very bad...

I don't want to get into my short experience with Rick, but if I'd have known that was the producer I'd have given you a heads up...

It never even struck me that it might be him until you mentioned it was someone the muse was familiar with...

All I will say though is he was a flake and never answered a question straight.

RLD was also good enough to give me a heads up so that combined with the flake touch was enough to keep me away from him

This music business attracts all kinds...

James...

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Hi Guys,

Time I chime in on this I guess.

First, I will admit to having dealings with Rick and even sending him money for two demos. All I got out of it is about a 2/3 completed demo of one song. It sounds like that?s more than some of you got. I know of at least a few others on this board (two of which haven?t posted in this thread) that sent money and have gotten nothing in return.

I have been doing a little investigating in the last couple of weeks and wasn?t going to say anything until I had a little more to back me up. When Russ made his first post, I got a sinking feeling and contacted him. I didn?t get all of the details he posted here (my request for them from Russ, was probably lost when the board went down). I also haven?t been around here for a few days, so this is the first I read of this new thread. From what I read here it pretty much cinches it for me.

It is a possibility that he had done similar things on another songwriting board a couple years back. I am in the process of contacting a few people that I know there to get more information. I will share that here when I get it. Until I get more info, however, I will not discuss any details. However, I will say, it doesn?t smell good so far.

Apparently, Rick is using my name as a reference of some sort. Russ said he mentioned my name to him somewhere in this process and I was contacted by another member here who he had given my name to who, unfortunately, I recommended Rick before the poo hit the fan. I feel terrible about that and have apologized and we have made our peace (he sent money and got nothing back as well). I just want this publicly known right here for the record. IF RICK D, OR RICK STEINHOFF USES ME AS A REFERENCE FOR BUSINESS, I DO NOT RECOMMEND HIM. . At the very least, his business practices are not sound and he is not dependable. It is also seems possible it could be worse than that. That he may be intentionally deceiving people.

This really hurts me. I don?t care about the money. It wasn?t that much. At the time my wife and I were scraping along, but things have improved significantly since then. Not a big deal. What I do care about is that I was starting to think of Rick as a friend. He shared some personal info with me (that now I don?t know if it was true or not, based on something else I am checking into with another party), we talked a little, I was going to do some vocal demo work for him in exchange for demos. He offered me some cool stuff. He was supposed to come to Nashville and I was looking forward to actually meeting him. It seemed like a good relationship building. That?s the part that really sucks.

Some of the things I can tell you about my personal experiences. Taken from an email I sent a couple of weeks ago to a friend on another songwriting board?

I was moderating with Robert Pepper who works with Rick. I think I actually have an address for Robert. I got to know Robert & Rick a bit from that activity.  About mid-November he approached me to do two demos for me for $275. I had heard some of his work and it was very good, so I took him up on that. We didn?t actually get started until into December. He had a work track for me to sing to ready by about Christmas time. I tracked the vocal and sent it back to him some time in early January. He got me back another rough mix about mid-January. I

Have yet to see a finished demo of this song.  The second song he was going to demo for me he decided he might use on a project he was working on (Jaime Beaver). From all I can tell, the project is legit (but behind schedule). I haven?t received any paperwork from him on this, although he said several times he was going to send it. I also don?t think the second demo has even been started yet. 

He asked me if I wanted to do some vocal demo work for him. I agreed. He offered for every two I did for him he would do one basic demo for me. I accepted. He sent me one song to do a vocal and I ended up with a co-write on it because I didn?t think it was that strong. He was one of the writers on it as well. Actually, it still needs to be fixed up. Supposedly, according to him this song was on hold with [name of producer removed] for [name of big time artist removed] (please don?t tell anyone this. I didn?t tell anyone as I didn?t know for sure it was true and now, I?m really having my doubts that any of it is). Although, I was excited at the prospect!!!  This was about February or March and he just seemed to drop off the face of the earth.

I would contact him?no reply. I would contact Robert?no reply. I don?t even care about the $275 at this point. I really started to think of him as a friend. I found out that is wife and daughter were killed in a car crash a little over a year ago. I hope that wasn?t just a story (actually I do?but you know what I mean). He offered that if we (my family) wanted to go on vacation, some time he left an open invitation to use a country studio/lodging facility they have.

He also mentioned recently that he picked up production on one of the Nashville Star finalists. I?m pretty sure the Jaime Beaver project is legit as she has reference to it on her site as well http://www.jaimebeaver.net and it appears that the album is about half done (my song isn?t on the track list so far?.).

I don?t know what to think about this any more. Something inside of me wants to trust him and thinks he is legit. But then again, that?s how a confidence game works. I didn?t think I would ever be dumb enough to fall for one, and I still am hoping I haven?t but your message last night disturbed me. Especially the part about him faking his death.  I also know that there are about a half dozen or so other writers at the Muse?s Muse that paid for demos and haven?t gotten them yet.

Based on what you mentioned last night and with the same pattern that appears to be repeating at the Muse?s Muse, this sure ain?t looking good. I don?t have a lot invested in this, but if he?s scamming me, I will be hurt as I really started to care about him and how he was doing (it was the losing his wife and daughter bit that really got to me).  Please, when you have time, let me know what your experiences were if you are comfortable doing so. Also, I think you mentioned other folks who have had problems with him. Was it xxxxx & xxxxxx? I may want to contact them as well. I really want to get to the bottom of this. If nothing else, if he is a scammer, I can at least let the folks at Muse?s Muse know what?s going on and if he ever pops back up again where I recognize him, I can warn people off.

Thanks & take care.

P.S. I?m going to have to update my picture on my

website. I?m skinnier than that now!!! :D

P.P.S. ? did you Google ?rickd muse?s muse? and get to my site? I saw a hit from that search on Google.

Thanks again?sorry for rambling.

That?s pretty much my story. As you can see, I started to question this a couple weeks ago and really wasn?t sure what was going on at that point. This thread has cleared things up a bit in my opinion of what is going on. My personal experience was that I kept getting excuse after excuse why things were not getting done. It seemed like he was very busy, so I bought it. We remained in contact, so I bought it. When he dropped off the face of the earth, I started to become suspicious, but still figured he might just be very busy. He claims to have a link through a song plugger or publisher in Nashville to a big time producer. Nashville?s still kind of a small town when it comes to the music biz. Maybe I can find out through some back channels if this producer has any idea who he is. Probably not, but worth a try I suppose.

Anyway, that?s what I wanted to share. As I said, it pains me to do this. I think he is a talented guy. I?ve heard some of his stuff and it sounds great (at least I think it was his stuff). Part of me really still hopes I am dead wrong about this, but it just doesn?t look all that promising. If I am, I will offer a full and public apology to Rick.

Perhaps I can get a hold of Robert. I may have his address somewhere (unless it go nuked when my old computer died). I like Rob as well and from what Russ said, it sounds like he was an innocent bystander in this. If that is the case, I hope he isn?t ashamed to show his face around here because of it. If that were the case, there would be a few of us that should not be here ;)

If I find any further information, I will post it in here as well.

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Thanks for explaining, John. We really appreciate your taking the time to put that all together. You're saying he might have done this on ANOTHER message board before here? Wow. I feel pretty stupid now, let me tell you. :-/

When you know more, please do let us know.

Thanks again!

All the best,

--Jodi

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I really feel for the Jamie girl. He was still working on her stuff when I got up there and it was sounding pretty damn cool. Rick insisted on ignoring her managers emails which I thought was kinda wierd. I can get his email and find out if they got their album done.. I know it was due by contract for completion last month.

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Yes,

I thinks it was due July 1. There is one track available to listen to on her site http://www.jaimebeaver.net . She is quite talented and the track sounded good. I hope it gets finished for her. :unsure:

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You know reading through this all, Im astonished becasue Rick is clearly a talented guy who DOESNT need to do business this way! It just seems he has an issue where he cant make his mind up who he wants ro work with and/or if things dont go HIS way with them he drops them like like a school bag on summer break. Its just really bad ethics, the arrogance of it all is most frustraiting, the idea that you are big enough (not that thats an excuse for anyone) to just drop talented guys when then project goes a little off course is beyond pretence. Its also just a cowardice thing.

I was lucky, I only had two songs go astray, one was left unfinished because he lost interest I assume, the other was apparently finished but never delivered, in fact i never even got to hear it, thats two pieces of my work perhaps complete, floating around and I have no control over them. I have reams of emails many tellling me how much they wanted to work with me etc, how talented they were etc and free offers for membership of this and that and whatever. There are others here who paid for work and never recieved, I wont mention them in case they abstain from thid thread out of choice, but there are others and I suspect many more.

I agree with LOS and we should extend an open oppertunity for one of the gang, Rick, Rob or Ted to come here unchallenged and explain, just in case we have got it all wrong. Afterall they dont want the chinese whispers affect to roll on from here, theres a lot of visitors here and this kind of publicicty WILL have an effect.

So come on withtimeproductions, fight your corner, or hide and lose ALL respect if there is any left.

Dissallusioned Marty

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I think I need to clarify once again..

Withtime productions is not the problem. This is one person who feels the need to lie. Rob and Ted have (and I'm sure still are) been burned and had to deal with Rick. For instance, Ted was a fairly new addition to the team when I got up there. He was the one to kind of warn me that things may not be as they seem. As far as I know, I don't think he has even been paid by rick for his services. That in itself is bad, but consider that Ted quit his day job as a carpenter to go work with rick and it is even worse.. more so, his wife is pregnant with their first kid. I think Ted actually had the sense to cut his loses and get out. Rob has had a huge amount of money invested in this company too. I just want everyone to be sure and know that this isn't a problem with either Ted or Rob. They are both stand up guys who have been burned too.

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ANTI - we need to contact Rick and discuss this. What is the best route to finding him? Through..?

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God... this is the first I have heard about all this Russ...

(I must be blind !!)

sorry buddy ... these crooks and theives (in my mind)

are everywhere... I knew you were so excited and anxious

with your plans... and I'm so sorry for you that they ended like that...

I'll be thinking about you.. when I make a fortune and when I do..

I'll get you some "proper" producers !!!!!!!!

you'll get there buddy.. you are way too bright/talented to fail ..

(or be conned again...!!)

your friend

Stewart........

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Thanks for explaining, John. We really appreciate your taking the time to put that all together. You're saying he might have done this on ANOTHER message board before here? Wow. I feel pretty stupid now, let me tell you. :-/

I'd just like to say that I do not think honest people with honest intentions, hopes and dreams, need to feel stupid for being taken in by someone, whether a Rick D or any other messer abouter. We can all take precautions and make checks but even in those circumstances if someone is intent on acting like a rat it is not always easy to see it coming. It takes involvement and time before we can see that things aren't adding up. All we have to go on, initially, is face value. There would be no crooks and seducers in the world if we all recognised them and could spot them coming. And if we trusted no one without multiple questions and investigations, then we could end up passing up the real deal. Someone with a genuine offer may feel deeply offended by the lack of trust we show them.

If this guy is really messing around in this way I'd have to ask myself what he stands to gain. Money and/or Power/and or Sex are the usual trio. Or is he mad (that's to say there is simply no rational reasoning for his behavior) or is he a complete incompetent who really hasn't got a clue what he is doing and how hurtful his behavior is.

This is another question I'd like to ask: In civilised society we are assumed innocent until proved guilty. In the popular music/recording business is it the other way around? Should we assume they are all dirty dealing song sharks, all guilty until proved innocent?

When I posted a thread 'Emotional Wreck' in a fit of hysteria at being used by a man (as I thought - though I still have no categoric proof that I was - just that circumstantial evidence at the time strongly pointed to that conclusion) many of the people replying to me, and advising me, were suggesting I treat all men as guilty until proved innocent. They felt I should question and question them and even then be very very wary. This advice came from men aswell as women.

I was glad to have a bit of sympathy, and it made me feel a bit better and slightly less panicked, but I did weigh up in my mind, afterwards, why so many of those responding came from the starting point 'all men showing an interest in a particular woman are guilty and up to no good.' It came across from the replies that most posters thought men wanted to avail themselves of the 'talent' without any concern or commitment.

That view seems to me to parallel this Artist/record producer situation/relationship of believing that any offer that comes our way in the music biz is false, that they are all only after what they can get, with as little return for it as possible, and that we should play devil's advocate all the way and never really let our guard down for one minute. But how could we express our talents and flower and grow in that sort of atmosphere of lack of trust? Quite frankly I would not be able to perform. Not in anything but a very shallow superficial way - and the best artistic performance doesn't come from the shallow superficial part of ourselves.

What do other people think the way forward is?

And if Rick D is/was a conscious seducer of creative artists, what was it he was really after? Money, prestige, or sex?

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I think it's just a matter of trying to be smart about business. Before we get involved in a deal with someone, we have to be diligent and make sure we trust the people we're dealing with. It's not really an issue of being innocent until proven guilty, just making people earn our trust.

But even when we do that, as in ANTI's case, we still have no guarantee that we won't get burned. Twice I have entered into business partnerships with people that seemed honest, and then took me to the cleaners. It happens. But if we let these kinds of things stop us from persuing our goals, then we will never be happy.

I say we should protect ourselves as best we can, and then go all out to make something happen. It's kind of like some writers who are so paranoid that they won't send anyone a demo of their songs because they fear someone will steal them. Sure, it's a valid concern, but you will never do anything with your music if you keep it locked up in a drawer.

We will all be disappointed at some point, but the biggest diappointment I can think of would be that we never even try to achieve our goals because we are afraid. That would be the disappointment that we would die with.

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was your producer in canada or the US?

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Just a quick update..

Rick has been calling me for a couple of days to apologize for how everything went. He has given me what seems to be reasonable explinations for how a lot of things went and has vowed to make it right. This also effects you guys who have been waiting for stuff from him too as he wanted me to pass on (and I'm sure he will also contact you) that your songs will get done.

I guess we'll just wait and see how it goes but I was pretty happy that I got an apology and and promise that wrongs will be righted.

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Lol...I wonder though, if you had never dropped his name would he be apologetic?

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