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  1. Welcome

    1. How This Place Works

      Want to know how to get the most out of the message board? Here's the place to find out!

    2. Q&A about the forums - and ideas for improvement

      Have a question about how the board works? Having difficulties with an aspect of the board? Post your questions here! Also, if you have idea about what you would like to see in future, feel free to post them!

    3. General Music Conversation

      This is a place where you can hold general conversations on music and Muse-related topics. Other topics can be discussed in Off Topic Discussions lower down the forum.

  2. Feedback Area

    1. Lyrics Feedback

      A place for members to post their lyrics if they're looking for constructive criticism.

    2. Songs (incl Instrumentals) Feedback

      Do you have music for the song you want critiqued? Purely instrumental creations also welcome! This is the forum to participate in.

    3. Music Video Feedback

      Interested in creating music videos? Here is a place to get feedback on the video itself. If you want feedback on the song, post in Songs Feedback (or both places if you want feedback on the song AND the video).

  3. Contests

    1. Lyric Contests

      Interested in joining a lyric contest to see how your lyrics measure up amongst your peers? This is the place to enter!

    2. Song Contests

      This is a forum where you can find contests involving the entire song - both lyrics and music.

    3. Other Contests

      This is the place where you'll find the contests that don't fit in the other two categories.

  4. Songcrafting and Collaborating

    1. Songcrafting Discussions

      Inside this forum, you'll learn the musical & lyrical crafts to help you develop your songs and lyrics.

    2. Music Theory and Melody

      A place to discuss questions about music theory and how to develop melodies for your songs.

    3. Songs In Development/Collabs

      Do you have a song that you'd like community help with? Got a good idea and nothing more? This is the place to post your idea, or a link to an audio idea. No critique, just ideas to make it better. A community place to throw your 2 cents in.

  5. General Creativity Area

    1. Artists' Cafe

      A place for you to post poems, short prose, lyrics, songs, and/or artwork. We're a creative bunch: if you're proud of it, we'd love to see it!

    2. Creativity Games & Challenges

      A place for discussions about the creative aspects of songwriting. Looking for inspiration? Would you like to pose a creative challenge to the rest of the creative community here? This is the place to do it.

    3. Songwriting Prompts and Exercises

      Let’s help one another kick-start the songwriting process! If you have an idea for a lyrical or musical prompt to inspire new songwriting ideas, or want to start a non-competitive group songwriting exercise, this is the place to share it. Stumped for a lyric topic? Stuck in a musical rut? Stop by here and get those creative juices flowing again.

  6. Performing, Recording and the Industry

    1. Live Performance

      Discussions on how to do your best in front of a live audience.

    2. Recording Tips & Technical Questions

      Information & recommendations about home recording & equipment you've been particularly impressed with. Also a place to post information about recording studios and tips for getting the most out of your studio experience.

    3. Music Video Production

      Want to make videos for your songs? A place ask questions and discuss all aspects of music video production (technology, software, hints, tips, etc.)

    4. Show Us Your Gear!

      Have some great recording gear or musical instruments at your disposal? Want to show them off? This is the place to tell us about them.

    5. DIY Publishing and The Music Business

      A place to discuss the business end of songwriting as a profession. Also a place to talk about PRO's and songwriting associations and any aspect of the business which you want to discuss, be it controversial or just an item of interest

  7. Self-Promotion, Advertisements and Discussions

    1. Self Promotion & Advertisements

      A place to sell yourself. What do you need to do to make it big? What have you done to improve your exposure? New CD? Website? Let us know and discuss here.

    2. Off Topic Discussions

      This is the place to discuss all those things that don't really belong in any other forum.

    3. Muse's Muse Memorabilia

      These are threads that we're reluctant to delete, but that need to be moved into their own special place.

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  • Posts

    • This is one of those “academic” questions that may or may not have any bearing whatsoever on your lyric writing.   I’m one of those “I know a poem when I read one” people. But I’m wrong just as often as I’m right. Generally, I have to respond in a visceral and emotional way to the written word in a lyric. I read a lot of well written lyrics on the site but don’t respond at all, in any manner. Sure, they’re cute and well written but they don’t engage me or move me or, most importantly, give me insight into the “human condition.” There are a lot of “well written” lyrics that are totally forgettable, and for me that is the ultimate definition of mediocrity... it’s like looking at a roomful of completely bland, boring and empty faces...big yawn.   I think an answer to this may depend on the genre you write or aspire to write. Do you aspire to write personal or confessional songs drawn from your own experiences? Perhaps your passion is silly, fluffy inoffensive songs about trite subjects that get weighed down by their own irrelevance and cuteness. Maybe you’re one of the countless “Dylan, Beatles, Young, etc., fans who aspire to emulate their dead or ageing idols. Or perhaps you’re devoted to more contemporary and current songs and are fully aware of how lyrics, production and music has changed over the past 60+ years.   EDM lyrics differ from Country lyrics. Confessional lyrics differ from Death Metal lyrics. Pop lyrics differ from Rap lyrics. I think a lot depends on what you hope to accomplish. Do you write for “yourself”? Do you write for a “career” in music?   If it’s the latter, I would suggest that you pick some of today’s most influential writers (Lorde, Adele, Angel Olsen, Ed Sheeran, Sia, etc.) and read their lyrics. See how they tell a story, incorporate a chorus and a bridge. Study what elevates their lyrics to move past simple rhyme schemes and how they present old subjects in new and memorable ways.   Poems or lyrics? Maybe it doesn’t matter at all how you identify or evaluate the differences or similarities. Memorable writing is memorable writing, regardless of how you choose to identify it or what camp you choose to place it in. Develop your craft. Give your readers something to hold on to, to remember, to be moved by. And ultimately, at least for me, be true to yourself, trust your feelings and take advice from people who know more than you do and whose work backs up their critiques and suggestions. The biggest mistake I ever made was taking advice from jealous and resentful people who masqueraded as friends, lovers and mentors.   Enjoy. Embrace. Entertain.    
    • I tend to think of poetry as more free with less structure. Song lyrics generally follow a structure of some sort. Verses with a repeatable chorus at the highest level. If I read something without those trappings I think of it as more of a poem. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be great in a song. I think it does mean that it is a harder road to travel to get it there. You can take a poem and convert it to a more song like structure. If you lean more towards poetry writing that might be a great strategy for creating lyrics. Create your poem and think about migrating that to a song structure. I kind of like that idea for myself as I've been in a song writing funk lately.    At the end of the day all of these rules beg to be broken. When it doesn't work it is obvious of course but when it does work it is usually pretty great.  
    • Beck and Call    Verse 1 I’ve tried so hard to reach out to you Guide your way and lend a hand Devote my time, encourage you But you never seemed to understand My friendship offered was unreserved But you wanted to pick and choose How close you would ever get to me You’ve left me abandoned and bruised   Verse 2 I’ve watched you struggling from afar Reaching for things you dimly understand But I’ll keep my distance let you be Hear about you second hand Alone on a precipice I stand Reflect with sadness what might have been         Oh we could have been so great together Had you ever reached out to me   Chorus And I’ve been calling, calling, calling To you inside my head I’ve been falling, falling, falling Into some endless living death   And if you fall, I’m no longer willing To be at your beck and call   Verse 3 I’ve never known such dark thoughts Take-over and engulf my mind You’ve taken me to the brink and some Felt like I was about to leave the ride You just carried on regardless Knowing you made me feel bad inside Took-up with my friends and dazzled them I'm feeling useless dull and deprived                 Chorus And I’ve been calling, calling, calling To you inside my head I’ve been falling, falling, falling Into some waking living death And if you fall, I’m no longer willing To be at your beck and call   Bridge Oh, I know we all have our own plans And yours clearly don’t include me So I’ve just got to get on with life But it’s so hard, I thought you'd see, eventually   Chorus That I’ve been calling, calling, calling To you inside my head I’ve been falling, falling, falling In some waking living death And if you fall, I’m no longer willing To be at your beck and call   Tag Until I hear you call
    •   I don't think that's the implication should take away from such comments.  I think when someone says the lyric looks (or feels, or sounds) more like a poem, they're primarily going by how the bare printed lyric literally looks (or feels to them or sounds to them in their head).  If the lyric doesn't have a lot of rhyme, then it's likely more apt to be seen/felt/heard as more of a poem.  If a lyric doesn't have a readily apparent hook, and/or if sections of it don't repeat as they would do in many typical song-type formats, and/or if it's structured "unevenly" from part to part, then the lyric is likely more apt to be seen by some as more of a poem than a song lyric.  So, I don't think such comments are really implying that the words should not be put to music.  I think they merely reflect that the person commenting has difficulty imagining how it would be done.  That doesn't mean it can't be done, or shouldn't be done.  On the rare occasion I might post a bare lyric, unless it's someone already familiar with my work, I might get one or more comments that they don't think it "flows" right, or that the structure isn't consistent, blah, blah, blah.  They don't get how I can make it work well when I actually sing it to music - and they do work.   
    • Thanks lads. Definitely needs a bit of tweaking. I agree with you fab, the lyrics don't flow as well as they could in parts for sure and ye the clattering is pretty amateur. I guess I probably just record it a bit more carefully or EQ it out. Ye Mutrins, I think the mix is probably the biggest problem with it at the moment. I'm not the best at sorting that type of thing but I'll give it a shot.Thanks for listening boys and for the kind words!
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